Curse

Spazzer · Aug 11, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

Today I was playing through Sunjiang District and I joined a pug attempting masters. The pug was unable to find a monk so the leader asked if anyone had heroes. Only me and one other player had heroes so we both added a dunkoro to fill the team. Well this other player pinged the build he had on his dunkoro and it was a "questionable" build at best.

He had 3 divivne favor, 12 healing prayers and 12 protection prayers.

Skills:

aegis
mend ailment
remove hex
shield hands
protective spirit
orison of healing
dwayna's kiss
mending

Well I promptly questioned this person's build by saying, "only 3 divine favor? you shouldn't focus on both healing and protection just do one. Its kind of like jack of all trades, master of none." Well this player proceeded to blast me calling me an "elitist fag" and that he can play any way he wants. :|

Well i left the group right away but it just annoyed me that i was just trying to be constructive and he gets mad at me. I wasn't saying "your build sucks u stupid noob." So has ppl being elitist made players angry at any criticsm at all?

His build was bad. You were right to ignore his suggestion, elitist fag. :]

Kas · Aug 11, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

If a build has the label epic suck I offer suggestions. If the suggestions are met with aggresiveness, I offer a quick kick from the team. People that are not capable of adapting their uber build to the team composition are not teamplayers anyways.

Nomen Mendax · Aug 11, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

The word "should" is suggestive by nature. It is not a demand, and anyone who takes it that way should consider re-learning English.

Sorry, but it is not suggestive: "to express a duty, obligation, or likelihood = OUGHT" - OED

or if you prefer Dictionary.com: "must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency):"

So "should" is not the best word to use if you want to make a polite suggestion.

Winterclaw · Aug 11, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

jos, WoH and SoR are pretty easy to get in factions. And for a pve build, IMO a hard res is usually good because I try not to plow through every boss in the area unless I have to fight one in my way. In PvP, no res on a monk is fine but in pve, I dunno.

Inger · Aug 11, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

If you indeed approached him using the words you've put into quotes, I can understand why he responded the way he did. "You should (or shouldn't)..." is aggressive language and, in this case, it appears your advice ("You shouldn't") is unsolicited. Unsolicited advice is much more likely than not going to receive an angry response.

Yes that is an exact quote, i made the thread about 10 mins after the event happened.

I didn't realize "should" would be considered so harsh however, didn't even think about it. Now that I read it over I guess "should" is demanding but still, I don't think the entire context of what I said was overly aggressive.

free_fall · Aug 11, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I'm always open to suggestions but there are times when someone insists you bring something which many times seems to be a "something" they've merely heard about rather than actually being familiar with it and how it works.

Case in point: my rit carries Vital Weapon - it's cheap, fast, lasts a long time and the fast recharge makes it very easy to spam the whole party.

Was doing the Torment mission with the fire dryders and the ('sin) leader insisted I bring Brutal Weapon instead and cast it on everyone. Well, ok. We start in, I cast it on him and while I'm waiting 15 secs for it to recharge they run off, straight into the first mob of Margos, promptly wiping and then mapping out before the few still alive can regroup and try to res them.

If you're going to ask someone to bring something specific, it helps to be familiar with how it works. Keep in mind, too, that some people buy skills which they never use so, while they might have a particular skill to bring, they may not be experienced in using it. PUGs aren't the place [Ii]I'd[/i] choose to practice a little on the job training, nor would I want someone practicing on me.

lakatz · Aug 11, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by free_fall

"The word "should" is suggestive by nature. It is not a demand, and anyone who takes it that way should consider re-learning English."

should – auxiliary verb
1. past tense of shall.
2. (used to express condition): Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.
3. must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency): You should not do that.
4. would (used to make a statement less direct or blunt): I should think you would apologize.

[...] Because the main function of should in modern American English is to express duty, necessity, etc.

So, if I was merely intending to suggest, rather than saying "you should", I would say "you might try" or "you might consider" looking things up in a dictionary.

It appears you're a lover of language and communication! Me too! The following may be of interest to you then.

Communication modes in order of effectiveness:

Empathetic (I understand how you might like that as an all-purpose build for early missions.)
Questioning (Have you ever tried a build with more points in divine favor and focusing on one or the other of healing or prot?)
Advising (You shouldn't focus on both healing and protection. Just do one.)
Critical (That's a noob build, you idiot.)

Of course, it's virtually impossible (and just way too perfect) for anyone to use only the top two communication modes. I know I can't, but Gaile Grey comes very close to using those two exclusively in a consistently assertive communication style, and that's one reason I admire her so much.

The wonderful thing about the last two communication modes, advising and critical, is that they provide the person who employs them frequently with an opportunity for personal growth. They are indicative of learned behavior that can be unlearned with the help of qualified 'teachers.'

Below are some informative sites about communication styles I thought you might enjoy as well. These sites put the least effective first, assertiveness being the most effective.

http://www.leadership-tools.com/comm...ion-skill.html
http://trainingpd.suite101.com/artic...ication_styles

The subject is much deeper, naturally, and there's much more information available. Googling for 'assertive language' and 'assertiveness training' etc for starters provides a plethora of resources for learning more effective communication skills.

lakatz · Aug 11, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

Yes that is an exact quote, i made the thread about 10 mins after the event happened.

I didn't realize "should" would be considered so harsh however, didn't even think about it. Now that I read it over I guess "should" is demanding but still, I don't think the entire context of what I said was overly aggressive.

Hi Inger...

I can see you had no intentions of being harsh or aggressive. And, fwiw, I happen to agree with you about the guy's build. Furthermore, I believe that having two Dunks would have been a good opportunity to go out with a controllable prot and a controllable healer. And I might have said just that... "Hey since we have two Dunks, I like the idea of going out with a strong prot and a strong healer. What do think?" That way I'm not insulting his build and I'm validating him by including him in the decision making process. And when everyone feels validated everyone works better together. Win-win. Advising someone invalidates them by implying they need your advice to make good decisions. Win-lose. Pissed off people don't work well together... so I suppose it was a good thing you left.

NinjaKai · Aug 11, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

If you want to mission with people. I'd suggest using friends or guildies. The latter being dependant on what your guildies are like.

lacasner · Aug 11, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Just take heroes, I haven't had dunkoro talk bs to me once lol.

MrFuzzles · Aug 11, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Just a few days ago I got kicked from the final factions mission because I insisted on using wild blow on my dervish <.< Apparently it's "useless" because it makes you lose all adrenaline and chilling victory is the "best" dervish attack.

the_jos · Aug 11, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

And for a pve build, IMO a hard res is usually good because I try not to plow through every boss in the area unless I have to fight one in my way.

Well, question is who carries the hard res.
There are 8 people in full teams.
That means 8 people can carry that hard res.
Why should that be the monk, besides they have points in the attribute?
The paragon has a hard res, so you don't even need /Mo on that character. Same for Ritualist.

In PvE, there are 2 res situations.
First is in combat. Ressing in combat most probably means your monks have to work hard to keep the rest of the team alive, so they should focus on that and not ressing.
Second is after combat. At after combat res, it does not matter who carries the hard res and if it has a bit disadvantage, because of no/low attribute points.
There is some time to regenerate, even in timed missions.
Considering this, the question is if a monk should invest a skillslot for a skill they won't use optimal or a skill that helps keeping players alive.

Quote:

In PvP, no res on a monk is fine but in pve, I dunno.

If it's fine in PvP, it should be fine in PvE, which is much easier, generally speaking.
The only reason this is not the case is that a lot of PvE teams play and think as individuals and not as team.
If they die, they say 'where is the monk' instead of asking themselfs why they died in the first place. It could be a bad monk, this happens.
But a lot of times, PvE deaths are caused by bad positioning, wrong aggro control and rushing. 'Wrong' team builds also contribute to the problem.

Sure, I have been in many missions where the monk was the only one standing and the team was able to continue and finish because of the hard res. But was that because of the res, or because suddenly people realize they can whipe if they don't play more carefull? Which they should have done from the start...

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Well. I usualy ping my build aftr entering a PUG.

They can then discuss about it. But i they just tell me 'chage this for that' and they do not tell me why should I do that, I'm not changing my build.

I got Protector in Prophecies and Factions without problem before Hard/normal mode, with the same build... so... builds are not as important as knowing how to use them.

Government Flu · Aug 12, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Just take heroes, I haven't had dunkoro talk bs to me once lol.

Once, Dunkoro went out of the way and in place of his usual battle and idle quotes asked, "Hey, mind if I use another elite in place of Light of Deliverance?"

After the initial shock value of seeing this text bubble appear over his head, I typed back "Uhh...no. Just keep monking."

Then I got green text reading "Dunkoro has left the game."

Suffice to say, I beat the mission I was in, but when I got back to my guild hall and pulled down my hero list, Dunkoro was grayed out. I tried to select him but got red text reading "This Hero is too angry to join your Party."

So don't abuse your heroes too much...

And with that being said, does anyone know how to get Dunkoro back?

Halmyr · Aug 12, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

And with that being said, does anyone know how to get Dunkoro back?

give him a cookie, make sure its his favorit kind doh....forgot what it was.

In Nm, I can deal with bad built, maybe just suggest to change a skill or two, and be polite about it, usaly works for me.

And in Hm, I just go with guildies, no problems.

Pae · Aug 12, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

The comment on using a good build was from someone earlier saying that it was an easy mission anyway, which meant that a good build doesn't matter as much (apparently >_>).

Curse You · Aug 12, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

I usually bring a hard res on my monk because there are always situations where some moron has gone an gotten them self killed (outside of my range).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

Just a few days ago I got kicked from the final factions mission because I insisted on using wild blow on my dervish <.< Apparently it's "useless" because it makes you lose all adrenaline and chilling victory is the "best" dervish attack.

You clearly failed to see how useful that AoE damage would be against all those foes you have to fight...

Also, doesn't Shiro have something like 6000 health?

1 up and 2 down · Aug 12, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pae

The comment on using a good build was from someone earlier saying that it was an easy mission anyway, which meant that a good build doesn't matter as much (apparently >_>).

Because the person with the bad build then might think that the build is good and use it in high end pve. Then if said person does use it in high end pve he might screw his team over. So its best to help him before that.

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Hopefully one day Anet will allow us more than 3 heroes per player...One day...Hopefully...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

Just a few days ago I got kicked from the final factions mission because I insisted on using wild blow on my dervish <.< Apparently it's "useless" because it makes you lose all adrenaline and chilling victory is the "best" dervish attack.

I had to read that a couple times. They really never figured out what they were saying?

Hollow Gein · Aug 12, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Heh, I'll trust my heroes anyday. Sure, they are dumb as doornails sometimes (not healing, aggroing the wrong group, etc) but they don't complain and they don't rage quit either. Besides, soon enough I'll have a 7 foot tall Norn Goddess as my bodyguard..lol